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Post by CAEF on Sept 20, 2016 21:44:27 GMT
H&A takes a Corrie style approach to its history. They like things to be more consistent. EastEnders was also the same until DTC came along. And Emmerdale is quite accurate with the history mentions. In the early years there was continuity errors such as how long Jack Sugden had lived in London and in 1973 Amos was said to have come from the village and went to school with Annie but in 1975 he was said to be from Bridlington.
Neighbours has retconned its history, not beyond recognition but 3 main factors was:-
In 1990, Jim was said to have had a son while in Vietnam and this meant he cheated on the love of his life, Anne.
In 1993, Julie was made to be not a Robinson but the product of a rape.
And the the Ramsay Retcon of 2009 where it was revealed Max and Anne had an affair when Jim was in Nam and they had a daughter.
I have tried to make sense of some of the retcons such as could it be Jim and Anne's marriage was not as clear cut as thought, or could it be Helen Daniels was not this saintly woman everyone thought she was and allowed her grandchild to be fostered out?
Do you think Neighbours rewrites its history the most out of the soaps?
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Post by kitkat1971 on Sept 20, 2016 22:53:25 GMT
I have had a really hard time with the Ramsay/Robinson retcons.
The only way you can get round it is by saying that we never met Anne, never saw her relationship with Jim so it can't have been as dyllic as made out and there was a bit of 'rose tinted spectacles' going on from Jim and Helen, purely because she had died.
But that is really, really weak because they both came across as too pragmatic and reasonable for that and also Paul and Julie were old enough to remember their Mum and how she was with Jim and given that they both had arguments with Jim at various stages, with Jim throwing them out, they would have hit back at some stage re him being a hypocrite about his perfect marriage and how he treated their Mum badly.
Also, i just can't believe that Max would have betrayed both Maria and his best friend by sleeping with Anne. Let alone her managing to conceal a pregnancy from everyone.
The only one i can just about let go y is Glenn as Jim could be a hypocrite at times and men having affairs whilst away from the families for years on active service, did happen. I can see that Jim would have just put it in a box and forgotten about it when he returned after Vietnam and he isn't supposed to have known about the baby.
Don't get me started on the impossibility of Paige having been conceived when she would have had to have been.
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Post by CAEF on Sept 21, 2016 12:47:42 GMT
God knows how the pregnancy was concealed. I think Jim was away in Vietnam at the time. So Max had an affair with his best friend and neighbour's wife. And Helen Daniels helped Anne conceal the pregnancy and adopt the baby out. And she never told Jim about the baby. During her time in the show, Helen had too much integrity to allow that to happen. She did show disgust at Jim for cheating on Anne while in Vietnam.
Scott was born in 1968 so Jim must have been called up for service just after Scott's birth. I think in 1969 he met Maureen Donnelly and had an affair with her. I suppose as you say, he was 2000 miles away from his family, in a war torn country and needed comfort. He was a hypocrite as in 1986 he berated Scott for wanting his wicked way with Charlene yet he got Zoe pregnant and Scott said "look who's talking".
Max was shocked and disgusted at Maria having a one night stand years before yet in about 1969 he cheated on Maria and betrayed his best friend and neighbour. I know women can have a one night stand while their husbands are away in service but that is too weak to explain away Max cheating on Maria and betraying Jim and Helen helping to hide it from Jim.
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Post by kitkat1971 on Sept 21, 2016 13:02:34 GMT
It is also Anne/Helen betraying Maria as Helen was a very good friend to her and i would imagine Anne would have been as well since Max and Jim's friendship went back to school days and i'm fairly sure that Anne was meant to have been at school with them as well.
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Post by CAEF on Sept 21, 2016 21:10:12 GMT
On a Neighbours forum someone said it is the shows biggest ever mistake and I 100% agree.
Julie found she was the product of a rape by Jim's boss Roger Bannon, that was more a revelation.
And Lauren being about 6 months gone when she left in 1994. Another stretch. I wish they would leave the past storylines accurate unless it is a subtle tweak or unintentional. What next? Terese Willis is the daughter of Roger Bannon, and Julie's half sister?
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Post by kitkat1971 on Sept 21, 2016 21:46:11 GMT
By chance, i stumbled across Lauren's last episode from 1994 on an old tape of mine last week. I was actually looking for some Home and Away episodes I knew I'd kept (the actor playing a main role back then turned up as a cameo last month which made me think of it) and Neighbours from the same time (Nov/dec 94) share the tapes as i was timer recording whilst i was at work.
Well, i can absolutely state for a fact that Lauren did not look or act remotely pregnant, not even early let alone 6 months. She was also talking to Wayne, who she had been dating, about him coming up to Brisbane to visit her and see how it goes.
I also really disliked the the Julie being a product of rape reveal as well but found it slightly more believable that a couple would decide to raise a baby resulting in rape as the Husband's. But then, Jim pisses all over that by not including her in the inheritance of the House and his Assets except, bizarrely, his share of the Garage! You'd think Scott would have been the logical one for that given Charlene was a Mechanic!
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Post by CAEF on Sept 22, 2016 15:35:26 GMT
Message to the Neighbours writers is, don't treat us long term viewers as if we have short memories. We remember everything.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 5:04:48 GMT
kitkat1971 Jim Robinson was always a hypocrite though wasn`t he. Always acting like butter wouldn`t melt, yet got a girl (Zoe Davis) who was old enough to be his daughter pregnant. Yet he read Scott and Charlene the riot act when they wanted to sleep together. I never was much of a Jim Robinson fan I have to admit. My fave character from Neighbours when it started was Max Ramsay. I enjoyed Jim and Max`s friendship, but it always seemed to me that Jim looked down on Max because Max wasn`t snooty like Jim was.
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Post by kitkat1971 on Sept 25, 2016 9:34:24 GMT
You're absolutely right Wendy.
I never did much like Jim but that has been reinforced on rewatching the early stuff. I have, over the last 2 Xmas' and birthdays been given all the dvd's released so far from the early years which is from episode 1 toDes And Saphne's wedding and Danny Ramsay leaving so approx 15 months worth.
Jim is, quite frankly, a ++++ and the Robinsons are rather a smug and unlikeable bunch much of the time. Even before Zoe, Jim had thrown Julie out because she was funny about him getting engaged to Maria's sster 5 minutes after meeting her. Now, on the one hand, Anne had been dead nearly 10 years and it is unreasonable to expect your father (or mother) to stay alone for the rest of their lives following the death of your other parent - especially when still a relatively young man (early 40s i think) as Jim was. But there are ways of going about it, and basically just telling your children, 2 of whom are still school age, that it is happening, no matter what their feelings about their Mum being 'replaced', not to mention their Gran who has taken over that maternal role will be leaving is not the way to go about it. And I also think that giving Anne's ring to Anya was unforgiveable. I know how i'd feel if my Dad were to want to give an item of jewellery that had belonged to my Mother to another woman, let alone her engagement ring which she wore every day of her life from the day they got engaged till her death. Even if i accepted him remaRrying (which i hope I would), I'd kick off about that.
But no, Jim doesn't see he has done anything wrong and kicks his child out of the House!
He is also hit Paul several times in the early years and was permanently losing his temper. It was always portrayed as "how unusual, lovely, kind, mild mannered Jim has been pushed so far that he loses his temper and throws his kid out, hits his kid" etc but actually it was his default position!
Yes, he looked down on Max and felt it was his place and right to 'put Max back in his place" quite frequently. He was similar with other neighbours as well. There is an early story about him taking it uppn himself to teach a neighbours kid how to ride a bike properly and about road safety because his own Dad hasn't "done it properly". He even went round the house and said that to the father! Then got affronted when this man told him to bog off!
Of course, if you see a child you know riding dangerously (cutting in front of cars at lights, that sort of thing), you should say something to the parents as the child and potentially motorists and pedestrians are in danger. But again, ways of doing it.
I too oreferred Max. Yes, he was a grumpy sod who shouted a lot and was often hard on his kids but he loved the bones of them (even Danny) and you knew where you were with them unlike 'nice guy' Jim. I can not imagine any situation where Max would strike one of his sons, let alone throw them out of the house.
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Post by CAEF on Sept 25, 2016 14:09:37 GMT
So it is no wonder that Jim cheated on Anne while in Vietnam. Also Jim was not mild mannered, he was quite loud, he had a posh but loud voice and was always moralising. He hit Paul, he hit Lucy.
The original Scott Robinson (Darius Perkins) was thoughtful and likeable whereas common opinion seems to be that Jason Donovan's Scott was rude, immature and selfish, hence pushing Charlene to have sex with him, and whining when he had to babysit again, and skiving off school and being a slob.
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Post by kitkat1971 on Sept 25, 2016 14:46:33 GMT
I really can't stand Donovans version of Scott. All he does is sulk, whine, moan and yes, he did put undue pressure on Charlene to have sex and then acted disgusted when he learnt she wasn't a virgin - even though he wasn't either.
What a ++++
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Post by Holey on Sept 25, 2016 16:47:25 GMT
I know he was only in the role for about 8 months when the show was axed on seven but I much prefered Darius Perkins in the role of Scott.
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Post by CAEF on Sept 25, 2016 17:24:17 GMT
Donovan's Scott was more iconic than the original one. But that was the first rewrite of history as his Scott looked nothing like the original or acted like him. It was like they were 2 separate characters. I may be biased as I met Jason in 2014.
The Ramsay Retcon would have been just as bad if it was Jim and Maria who had their affair over Max and Anne.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 19:08:05 GMT
Maria was the worst actress out of all of them when it first started. Even little Lucy Robinson was more realistic than Maria. I liked Darius Perkins as the original Scott, it was a shame they replaced him. Yes Jason Donovan was good in his role. If I recall wasn`t Jason a relative of one of the actors or producers? Pure nepotism. I bet Darius felt so bitter over that. I liked the friendship between Danny and Scott, I was saddened to see Danny leave. Was never much of a Shane Ramsay fan though. he was ok, but too much of a ladies man...falling in love every other week. Its about time we had more Ramsays on the street. I`d love it if Danny came back.....even if it was played by another actor. Going back to Jim Robinson`s failings. I am sure Jim was the reason why Rob Lewis (Gails Dad) died. There was a storyline where Rob was buying cheap car parts for the garage to save money and Jim threatened to dob him in to the cops. So all the stress and worry of that must have caused Rob to have a fatal heart attack. And because of her grief, Gail left Paul while she was pregnant with triplets. So Paul Robinson missed out on the births and of being around his kids growing up. Every week I live in hope that Des Clarke comes back to Neighbours. After his guest stint on the 30th anniversary, I was really hoping that Des would come back. Paul Keane was more than willing to reprise his role. Especially now as Paul needs all the friends he can get. It would have been perfect if Des came back to visit Paul when he was in prison.
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Post by Lady Voldemort on Sept 25, 2016 19:52:57 GMT
There is an early story about him taking it uppn himself to teach a neighbours kid how to ride a bike properly and about road safety because his own Dad hasn't "done it properly". He even went round the house and said that to the father! Then got affronted when this man told him to bog off! Of course, if you see a child you know riding dangerously (cutting in front of cars at lights, that sort of thing), you should say something to the parents as the child and potentially motorists and pedestrians are in danger. But again, ways of doing it. I remember this storyline. The dad had taught the kid to cycle against other traffic, not alongside it. But then the kid got knocked off his bike (and died iirc) so St Jim got to bask on his moral high ground. If he was still around these days he'd have a field day with Jimmy
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