SPOILERS What did you think of Star Wars: The Force Awakens?

[J-B]

SPOILERS AHEAD: If you haven't seen TFA yet, click away now


For those of you that have seen it, what did you think of Star Wars? Here are some of my thoughts that I haven't completely clarified yet, I really need to see it again.

Pros:

The new casts acting - I thought the new cast were fantastic, they were incredibly well acted throughout, with special props to Daisy Ridley (MyRey). She nailed it. John Boyega & Oscar Isaac were great too, and Adam Driver is, for me, the best acted villain in the series.
Rey - It's so rare to have such a strong female lead character in an action movie, without falling into the trope of 'damsel in distress' that has to be saved by a male character. Rey beating up three attempted muggers on Jakku before Finn could get near was brilliant.
Han Solo (& Chewbacca) - I think this is Harrison Ford's best work, and perfectly melded the old and the new together.
Visuals - It's a stunning film, all credit to JJ Abrams. The dogfighting sequences were fantastic, that scene of the X-Wings coming across the lake was super cool.
Lightsaber battles - For perhaps the first time in a SW movie, lightsabers feel like actual brutal weapons that can hurt. There's an interesting parallel in fighting styles between the new generation and the prequel Jedi. In the prequels, the Jedi fought almost like ninjas, as an art form, because they've been brought up with this religious, dogmatic training style. In the new movies, these untrained newbies are hacking and bluntly swinging at eachother, just as you'd expect from untrained people.
The Luke reveal - This was perfect. He couldn't have turned up any earlier in the film, because that subverts the story to be all about him rather than this new generation / war.
BB-8 - Probably the third best character in the film.
Comic moments - So many. The bromance between Finn and Poe Dameron, Rey not needing her hand held, Han and Chewbacca.

Cons:

It's exactly the same as A New Hope - What a shame that the plot is effectively ripped entirely from ANH. Force sensitive oppressed loner from a desert planet is roped into destroying a planet-shaped superweapon. I'd have liked to see the plot inverted, maybe the New Republic have a superweapon or planetary defence system, and the First Order destroy that. It might have been a bit more original.
Clunky script - There were some really clunky bits of dialogue used as exposition, like Leia explaining to Han that Kylo is their son. I appreciate that this was probably done to make it easier to follow for kids.
Carrie Fisher - She was completely phoning it in, I got no emotion from her the way I did from the other returning cast.
General Snoke / The First Order - I think there needed to be a little more exposition around how the First Order came to power, who General Snoke is, and what the dynamics are between the New Republic, Leia's alliance army, and the FO. I felt nothing when Starkiller Base destroyed those random planets, because it's never explained what the ramifications of that are.


All in all, I love it It ain't perfect, but it did exactly what it needed to do to reestablish the franchise with all that Disney money after George Lucas made a right mess of the whole thing.


What did you all think?

[Teeks]

Rating: 7/10

First of all, I did like the movie, but I want the chance to get my gripes and criticisms about the film in general out of the way first. I agree with you that the story and structure was TOO similar to Star Wars: A New Hope. It felt almost like a remake, as opposed to a continuation of the series. That's why I've given it a 7/10 rating, if the movie had taken more bold risks I would've given it a higher rating. Personally, I expected the movie to be more original.
It seems like JJ Abrams was afraid of upsetting the Star Wars fanboys, so he stuck to the tried and tested formula of the classic Star Wars films. I'm hoping the sequels diverge in a different direction and the story progresses in surprising new ways, because I'm really not interested in seeing remakes of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in the cinema.

That said, it was a well-made film and JJ Abrams has done a great job in re-establishing the franchise, just as he did with Star Trek. I was particularly impressed by the lack of CGI and use of on-location shooting by Abrams, it reminded me of the classic Star Wars films. The prequels were ruined by ghastly CGI IMO. There was also some great shots in the film - in particular the final shot at the end with Luke and Rey, and the cool shot of imperial ships chasing Rey and Finn in the backdrop of the sun was epic. On a visual level - it was pretty spectacular.

I thought all the characters were good and all the actors played their parts well (even Adam Driver despite his unsuitability in the role of Kylo Ren IMO). Rey was a decent lead character, she has a long way to go before she reaches the popularity and acclaim of Luke Skywalker. But like you, I am happy to see a strong heroine as the leading character in a Hollywood blockbuster, it makes a nice change. Her backstory is a little too similar to Luke, though - she's almost like a female version of Luke. But I can accept that because Luke is a old man now and they need a new hero who feels familiar to audiences.

I thought Finn was altogether a more interesting character than Rey, though. I love the idea of a Stormtrooper joining the good guys and I'm interested to learn more about his backstory. Finn is reminiscent of Han Solo - a selfish criminal who joined the Resistance alongside Luke and Leia to defeat the Empire. In this case, we have a disobedient Stormtrooper who decides to turn his back on the First Order and help the Resistance instead.
Do you think there could be more to Finn's betrayal of the First Order? It just seemed a little too convenient. I'm wondering if Finn was programmed to 'betray' them and join the Resistance, so that Kylo Ren can use him to infiltrate the Resistance and destroy them. Just a theory.

As for Kylo Ren - Unfortunately, I thought he was the weakest part of the film. I wish he kept his mask on half way through the film, because up until that point, Kylo Ren was a menacing villain. But once he took off his mask, he lost his intimidation factor and aura. I felt Adam Driver was the wrong actor for the part, he was too tame in the role and devoid of a commanding presence that all great movie villains have. He's not a bad actor, I just think he was not suited to the role.
The writing for him was also weak and it proved to be a disadvantage to Adam Driver - he was written as this bitter, pathetic emo, who kept having violent tantrums when things went wrong (Darth Vader, on the other hand, was ice cool). Why does he hate his parents so much? And why does he hero worship his grandfather a.k.a Darth Vader? I'm hoping that gets explained in the sequels.

I hope we get to learn more about why and how Kylo went to the Dark Side; the image I got was that Kylo was a rebellious teenager who wasn't given enough attention by Han Solo and Leia and ended up joining Snoke's gang out of spite. If that is the case, then I really can't sympathise with a villain like that. What made Darth Vader such a great villain was his tragic backstory and how he fell to the Dark Side, it was almost Shakespearan.
I hope they build on Kylo's character in the sequels and stop writing him as a angry child. At the moment, he's nothing more than a crap Darth Vader reject IMO. He also isn't a very good lightsaber fighter - he got beaten by a novice in Rey, who hasn't even started her lightsaber training yet! All in all, I thought Kylo Ren was a disappointment despite his early promise.

Also, who are these Knights of Ren guys? They mentioned that Kylo Ren was a member of this group. Are they Sith lords? If that is the case, will we maybe see more Sith lords in the sequels? Maybe there is a more powerful Sith lord out there than Kylo Ren and Snoke? I hope there is because Kylo Ren is not good enough to beat Rey let alone Luke Skywalker at this stage.

As for General Snoke, I'm intrigued by him. I was amazed by how massive he was - he looked like a giant, ugly troll . I wasn't sure whether if it was the hologram that was making him look so massive, or whether he's actually that big? I have a feeling Snoke is actually really short like Yoda . He probably projects the massive hologram to make people afraid of him, when in fact he's a tiny midget .

I do agree with you though, we needed a bit more exposition about how the First Order and Snoke came to power, because it's not made clear how much power they have and how much power the Republic don't have. Clearly, they're not as powerful as the Empire were - they're basically a bargain basement version of the Empire. And yet, they seem to command as much power as the Empire and even built a super-sized Death Star!
Also, why is the Republic a seperate entity from the Resistance? Surely after all these years the Republic would have a fully functioning military by now? I don't get it.

I have to mention the Star Killer as well... Something else that bugged me was - why did the Resistance allow the First Order to built it in the first place? Why did the Republic not notice the Star Killer until now? Didn't they learn nothing from Star Wars Episode 4, 5 and 6? And if the First Order are not as powerful as the Empire, then where did they get the resources to built such a superior weapon to the Death Star? Sorry, I can't help nitpicking . It seemed like, to me, JJ Abrams wanted to copy A New Hope just for the sake of copying it, even when it made no sense to copy it.

As for the ending, that was a fitting ending I thought and a great one. I loved the way they shot the final scene with Rey outstretching her hand with Luke's lightsabre. It became clear to me about halfway through the film that it would end with Rey meeting Luke. A perfect ending, I'd say.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that before I keep babbling on . All in all, I liked the movie - I just wish the writers were more brave and took the story down a more original route. But that's just personal feelings.

[J-B]

Good review Teeks, I agree with most things there.

I watched an interview with JJ Abrams that the copying of ANH was deliberate, they wanted to start the first film of the new era with a loner on a desert planet and end it with a trench run to reestablish the franchise, and get the people that the prequels pushed away engaged with the series again. I do agree that it erred on the side of being too familiar though.

I wonder about JJ not directing the next one, it's being written and directed by the pretty good Rian Johnson (Brick, Brothers Bloom, Looper.) I wonder if that will have a big impact on the originality of VIII, as JJ is mainly a sequels / reboot director (Mission Impossible, Star Trek, Star Wars), whereas Rian comes from the world of original IP.

They've got 3 great story threads set up for VIII that should flesh these new characters out a little more - Luke & Rey training (really hope this doesn't just carbon copy Luke/Yoda), Snoke & Kylo training, and Finn & Poe with the Republic.

It's interesting that you mention Kylo not being a great villain, I got the impression that was the point. He's not a master sith that's been indoctrinated for years, he openly says that he still feels the pull of the light side. He doesn't have the twisted background and doomed fate that Anakin had, he's the son of a war hero and a princess that wanted to be a bad boy because he'd that his grandfather was.

[Teeks]

And that's my major problem with Kylo Ren - he doesn't come across as particularly villainous if you look past the anger and bitterness. He just comes across as a rather confused teenager who's fallen in with the wrong crowd and doesn't quite know what he's doing. Darth Vader was a true villain and very single-minded, it wasn't until near the end of Return of the Jedi that we saw his humanity shine through, ultimately helping Luke to defeat Darth Sidious.

And why write Kylo as such a angry emotional wreck? Every person I spoke to about the film found his characterisation annoying. We get it, he's angry at his parents, but why?
They really needed to give us more exposition about his backstory to make us sympathise with him.

I hope my gripes about Kylo haven't ruined your positive views of the character, by the way. I just wanted to give my honest view on him .

[Teeks]

Dec 23, 2015 20:56:37 GMT J-B said:

Good review Teeks, I agree with most things there.

I watched an interview with JJ Abrams that the copying of ANH was deliberate, they wanted to start the first film of the new era with a loner on a desert planet and end it with a trench run to reestablish the franchise, and get the people that the prequels pushed away engaged with the series again. I do agree that it erred on the side of being too familiar though.

I wonder about JJ not directing the next one, it's being written and directed by the pretty good Rian Johnson (Brick, Brothers Bloom, Looper.) I wonder if that will have a big impact on the originality of VIII, as JJ is mainly a sequels / reboot director (Mission Impossible, Star Trek, Star Wars), whereas Rian comes from the world of original IP.

They've got 3 great story threads set up for VIII that should flesh these new characters out a little more - Luke & Rey training (really hope this doesn't just carbon copy Luke/Yoda), Snoke & Kylo training, and Finn & Poe with the Republic.

I see, that's interesting. That makes sense I suppose. It did seem like Abrams was trying to evoke memories of ANH by copying the story and structure of the original film. I think the intention was to re-establish the franchise on firm footing before taking the story in a new direction in the sequels... at least I hope that's the case!

In regards to Rian Johnson, I think he's a very good director and I like his movies (particularly Looper), so he should do a good job for the sequel. I hope he is more original than JJ Abrams when it comes to the storyline. We can't have another Empire Strikes Back in the sequel because that will be predictable.

Yes, there are some really intriguing threads set up for the sequels. I'm most intrigued by Snoke and Finn's characters because I think there could be a twist involving one of these characters. I really hope they don't pull any obvious twists like Rey turning out to be Han Solo's daughter and Kylo Ren's sister, because that would be the most predictable twist in the history of twists. The Luke-Darth Vader twist was great for its time, but you can't replicate it. Luke and Rey's Jedi training should be good, as long as they resist the urge to have Rey use the Force to lift an X-Wing out of a swamp like Luke .

[kitkat1971]

Saw it a couple of days ago and i pretty much agree with both of you.

It was good, it was incredibly reminiscent of ANH but I expected that as it is what Abrahms does with these franchises and it does make sense as ANH was a good story, they want to get back to basics after the prequels to get the viewers that hated those back and also entice a new generation.

I do agree that it has to go in a new direction next film though, even though it was my favourite, they can't remake The Empire Strikes Back - but I think it will now they have reestablished the premise and the new characters.

I'm split on Kylo Ren. In many ways I like that he is so obviously trying to be Granddaddy and failing somewhat - I found his temper tantrums quite amusing (especially the storm troopers backing off when they heard he was having one) and whilst it could be argued it undermines his credibility as a major villain, in some ways it could make him more dangerous as how far could he go when losing it like that?

Yes, it does seem a little like he was just 'got at' during a teenage rebellion "i hate my Mum and Dad - i bet Granddad would have understood me" faze but is that not maybe socially relevent with the radicilasation of disenfranchised teenagers that we keep being told is happening? Teenagers do often hate the World and particularly their parents and society they are in and search for new meaning - Ren found it with the New Order and they were probably waiting to pounce on him.

It could go either way but killing Han is going to be a hard obstacle to overcome. By the way, how did Leia know that had happened the instant it did? If it had been Luke or Ren dying, fair enough - she'd probably have sensed it as she does have some Force sensitivity but she doesn't have a psychic link to Solo does she?

I spent half the film not understanding why the Resistance was called the Resistance and not directly alligned with the Repuplic when the Empire had been all but destroyed at the end of Return of the Jedi. Or where the First Order had sprung from, or at least become so powerful without the Republic taking action against them.

So, i agree, we need more background on that.

Yes, Ray being another child of Han and Leia's that they'd hidden away to protect or of Luke's has occurred to me as well but I hope they don't go there.

Han was well used but I'd guessed he would be the death (that there was one had leaked to me) as I couldn't see ford wanting to keep doing them. Great that he did have the biggest role of the originals and they got their money's worth for his final outing.

[J-B]

Jan 3, 2016 0:33:17 GMT kitkat1971 said:

It could go either way but killing Han is going to be a hard obstacle to overcome. By the way, how did Leia know that had happened the instant it did? If it had been Luke or Ren dying, fair enough - she'd probably have sensed it as she does have some Force sensitivity but she doesn't have a psychic link to Solo does she?

I spent half the film not understanding why the Resistance was called the Resistance and not directly alligned with the Repuplic when the Empire had been all but destroyed at the end of Return of the Jedi. Or where the First Order had sprung from, or at least become so powerful without the Republic taking action against them.

Perhaps Leia sensed her son killing his father, rather than Solo's death itself?

Having seen it a second time, I thought the whole Resistance / Republic / First Order thing was one of the weaker parts of the film. I can see why they glossed it over in some respects, as the heavy focus on trade negotiations and separatist politics in the prequel trilogy was terminally dull, but this film definitely went too far in the opposite direction. I didn't care when those four or five planets blew up, because I didn't know if that was significant or not - Was that the vast majority of the new republic gone, is the Resistance just Leia and that small army?

It would have only taken a couple of lines between Leia, Poe, and the resistance leaders to make that all crystal clear and have much more gravitas I think. 

[kitkat1971]

Yhinking about Kylo Ren and Vader, i think they are deliberately doing it in reverse.

This might be an age thing and in what way you first saw the films - as a lump, close together or spaced out. I don't know how old either of you are and it's not meant to be patronizing (my opinion is more valid because I saw them at the cinema first time round, it's just a different perspective)m

The thing is that perhaps isn't as apparent if you didn't see them as they came out, one by one with 3 year gaps at the time (as I did although I was very young for Star Wars, about 7 so then 10 then 12 for parts 5 and 6) is that we didn't have any tragic back story for Vader until Return of the Jedi and it wasn't fully expanded upon until the prequels.

For the first two films, all we knew was that he had been a good Jedi, trained by Kenobi, who was turned. And he appeared totally turned, even down to killing his old mentor so he was an out and out baddie - almost cartoon, panto villain like. There were no layers to make him more interesting. They were exlored as time went on and we saw the 'softer', tragic side.

With Ren, we are getting the back story first, seeing how the 'ice cold' villain is formed and by the third film, we could well see the all powerful villain that Vader was in 'A New Hope'. Don't forget that Vader was probably 15-20 years further on in his journey and 'career' with the Dark Side when we first saw him than Ren is. For all we know, he had temper tantrums early on as well.

Re the First Order. I suppose it does make sense that there will have been lower ranking Generals in the Empire that didn't just give in and accept the Resistnace. The Emporer and Vader's deaths will have left a power vacuum at the very top and there was probably infighting to become the new Leader but it makes sense that somebody would and start utilising the already existing troops.

How they managed to construct a new bloody Death Star with nobody noticing god only knows though and we do need to know more, but I agree they orobably steered clear of the politics because people were so bored by it in the prequels.