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Post by Teeks on Nov 6, 2015 22:58:25 GMT
How did Sing-along Beth end up having such a dramatic death anyway? She was SO pointless for the entire time she was on the show. She became a tad more interesting through her budding friendship with Daryl (which came a bit out of left-field), but then she was kidnapped by the Hospital group and you know the rest .
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Post by Lady W on Nov 6, 2015 23:04:57 GMT
I don't know how or why she lasted so long - or how she was such a popular character?!? The hospital arc in with her in S5 was so tedious!! The only good thing about it was that it led to her death; which I cheered out loud about because I'd been waiting so long for the singing bitch to die But then she bloody showed up again in Tyreese's dying hallucinations, again with the singing...I was starting to think we were never going to get rid of her!
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Post by Teeks on Nov 6, 2015 23:15:54 GMT
Lol . Her singing was just cheesy and inappropriate. Did she really think anybody wanted to listen to her singing in the middle of a freakin' zombie apocalypse? I would've ended up strangling her! I'm surprised none of the characters tried! smiley-biglaugh
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Post by Lady W on Nov 6, 2015 23:26:06 GMT
The closest we got was Dawn smacking her a couple of times in the hospital free-rolleye-smileys-323 I wanted Daryl to beat her face off with his crossbow when he kicked off at her in that ep where it was just the two of them; they'd had the moonshine and Daryl just started ranting at her...it was brilliant
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Post by Teeks on Nov 6, 2015 23:31:09 GMT
You're spot on about Morgan, too. Does he really think he can go through the zombie apocalypse without killing anyone? And with that stick? He can't be that naive can he?! He's worse than Tyreese!
I imagine Morgan was brought back into the show to act as the moral heart of the group, and also help Rick "see the light" about his ruthless ways. Rick has gone off the deep end, so the group needs a pacifist like Morgan to help rein him in a bit. He's basically an Anti-Rick. That's all fine and dandy.
But they've gone way too far with the zen master schtick and made the character into a soft touch. I like that he wants to maintain peace, but he needs to realise The Wolves aren't people you can negotiate or reason with. To quote Michael Caine in The Dark Knight, "Some men just want to watch the world burn." You have to kill them before they kill you! Rick and Carol are right in that regard.
That said, I'm still glad he's part of the cast. I like Lennie James a lot, he's a good actor.
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Post by Lady W on Nov 6, 2015 23:45:55 GMT
Morgan seems to think smacking people about with his stick and telling them to behave will, y'know, make them behave! Because Eastman did it with him and it seemed to work, ergo, it'll work when he does it with others I agree with you that Lennie James is a cracking actor and, despite me really disliking Morgan right now, I think he plays him fabulously. Clear is one of my all-time favourite TWD episodes and that's largely down to him; especially this scene: I just want to love Morgan again rather than wanting to beat his head in with his ZenMaster stick
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Post by sherwood on Nov 7, 2015 14:05:59 GMT
Morgan is nothing like Tyreese. Tyreese was basically a coward and completely unfit for TWD world but Morgan is far from a coward. I think mentally he was rescued by Eastman and by using Eastman's philosophy he has found a way to live in the world he is now in. When he was killing everyone in sight he was sick basically and suicidal, Eastman said he was suffering from PTSD and now that's out there I reckon a lot of them probably are. It seems to me that the new world order may need someone like Morgan to curb some of the enthusiastic killers like Carol and Rick who seem to have no remorse at all.
Michonne and even the likes of Daryl are clearly looking at Rick and his style warily now.
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Post by Teeks on Nov 8, 2015 18:38:36 GMT
I'm not sure I agree that Tyreese was a coward, he did fight off hordes of zombies on a couple of occasions (not many characters have done that) and protected Judith in the process, too. I'd say that was brave. He could be a pretty formidable zombie killer at times. He was just reluctant to commit murder so readily like Rick and Carol and understandly didn't want to lose his humanity. Ultimately, Tyreese died because of his need to maintain his humanity and his subsequent lack of a ruthless streak, which unfortunately has no place in the TWD universe. Morgan seems to be in the same mould, but only worse IMO. Even Tyreese knew you had to kill bad guys when it was necessary. Morgan's view that all life is sacred is not going to do him any good in the long run, and I'll be surprised if it doesn't lead to his death at some point - unless he changes his stance and understands that some killing is necessary and unavoidable in a world without law and order. That stick is not going to do him any good against guns either. That said, I do agree that they needed a character like Morgan to curb the murderous instincts of Rick and Carol as you say. They have turned into a right pair of psychopaths . Also, I did like how Morgan saw through Carol's "mousy housewife" act .
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Post by sherwood on Nov 8, 2015 19:48:58 GMT
You make a fair point Teeks I suppose I just saw Tyreese as a coward in that he didn't appear to want to face things and found ways around it at times whereas Morgan has no issue in facing anything and has a legitimate reason for not wanting to kill, it's not because he is afraid or weak. It does seem like a mad personal philosophy to have in such a world as TWD but yes it's something that Rick and Carol should definitely have a serious think about
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Post by Teeks on Nov 8, 2015 20:47:23 GMT
Thanks, sherwood. I think Tyreese's main flaw was that while he was a formidable zombie killer, he was a bit psychologically weak and not ruthless enough in dealing with bad guys (e.g. the Terminus henchman from Season 5). Yeah, I agree that Morgan's "no killing" rule doesn't come from a place of weakness or fear, but from a moral standpoint. He doesn't want to lose his humanity again, which I can sympathise with. But I think he would be forgiven for killing in self-defence in order to protect his own life, in much the same way a police officer would do... Anyway, I'm looking forward to tonight's episode . I swear they better tell us what happened to Glenn or I'll be pissed.
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Post by Lady W on Nov 8, 2015 22:47:07 GMT
Yes, Morgan refusing to kill that one Wolf, even after he said he was planning to kill everyone in Alexandria, reminded me of Tyreese's refusal to kill that Termite who was threatening to break Judith's neck at the start of S5. Even though it's come from different places, the fact that they lacked the drive to take the necessary action to eliminate the threat just means that said threat is going to come back and bite them (pun not intended!) in the future. We've seen it before with the Governor and Andrew from the prison gang...in fact the whole issue of deciding who lives/dies in order to keep the group safe came up way back in S2 over Randall, so my issue re ZenMorgan is more to do with the fact that we've pretty much covered this territory, or at least very similar, already and I'm not sure what other result there's going to be other than Morgan's new-found pacifism getting people killed. Eastman may well have rescued Morgan's sanity, but he's instilled a very flawed way of thinking that's unworkable in the world they are in and now, ultimately, has made Morgan more of a liability than an asset. If the Wolves' attack on Alexandria hasn't woken Morgan up to the fact that some people need to be killed for the sake of the group's survival then I'm not sure what will free-indifferent-smileys-697
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Post by Teeks on Nov 9, 2015 4:06:14 GMT
That's true, we have covered this territory before on a couple of occasions (along with the false "safe haven" storylines). And we all know what the end result will be... the pacifist approach never works out! It always ends badly. Morgan will have to learn the hard way.
The show has taught us time and again over the years that showing mercy to your enemies is never a good idea. Randall, The Governor, The Termite, Andrew, and most recently Nicholas etc. The writers literally beat us over the head with it every season and continue to do so!
Nicholas was a guy who had made not one but TWO attempts on Glenn's life - and committed suicide to escape a painful death from the walkers, which subsequently led to Glenn being killed (or so it appears!). That situation would not have come about if Glenn had put the muppet out of his misery. Much like Tyreese, Glenn sees the best in humanity and wanted to give Nicholas a third chance. However, it was a show of weakness that has now led to his apparent death (or near death).
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Post by Teeks on Nov 9, 2015 4:41:38 GMT
On a lighter subject... Wildy I bet you were disappointed when the Wolf woman failed to kill Jessie . I immediately thought of you when Jessie started stabbing her to death . I was like, "Wildy's gonna be pissed!"
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Post by Lady W on Nov 9, 2015 17:30:39 GMT
Gaaaaah! Jessie smiley-angry She's my new Beth, although at least she fared better with a pair of scissors than Beth did! I find it hard to believe that she'd manage to take down a Wolf considering the Alexandrians are pretty much useless in combat, but I guess it was maternal instinct or something that kicked in. I can't see her becoming zombie fodder just yet (unfortunately!) as, I assume, the angst with Rick is going to go somewhere eventually free-rolleye-smileys-323 I don't know WTH he got hung up on her in the first place though - she's just so... blah!
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Post by sherwood on Nov 9, 2015 19:36:29 GMT
Morgan's philosophy has already had disastrous consequence in that 2 of the Wolves he let go initially were part of the gang that attacked Alexandria however maybe this has taught him a lesson in that he has tied up this Wolf. I suppose you could say Morgan was in the exact same position as this Wolf in that he threatened Eastman again and again and when Eastman finally gave him an ultimatum he attacked him but still Morgan learned to not kill so perhaps the Wolf can free-indifferent-smileys-697 Though I doubt it somehow Oh well roll on tonight and finding out about Glen, PLEASE.
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