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Post by Lotty27 on Feb 18, 2019 12:01:41 GMT
One thing that's been confirmed for me watching these old episodes - I still cannot stand Michelle! What a miserable, whiny mare she is. OK Mary isn't a barrel of laughs either and also gets on my wick but to be fair she's got a lot more to moan about than the sainted Michelle!
Behind in the episodes and only up to last Monday's when she finds out she's not pregnant - and she seems to tell everyone before Lofty even bloody Den Watts and obviously doesn't see that as any kind of betrayal! Now she's sitting in the cafe talking property with Mags and making insensitive remarks in front of Ali (baby making vegetable which babies hang off - or WTTE) while Lofty STILL frets in the pub.
Gawd she does my head in.
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Post by CAEF on Feb 18, 2019 14:34:31 GMT
The original Michelle always was a bitch. I know Grant was violent but a lot of the time it was due to blackouts related to PTSD and Michelle treated Grant with utter harshness and contempt. When Grant beat up Eddie Royle, he did it during a blackout and did not know he did it.
Michelle was stuck up as well, probably because her dad was a mere street sweeper and her mother was a laundry worker, and she did a "Ken Barlow" and shunned her working class roots.
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Post by Lotty27 on Mar 1, 2019 4:58:57 GMT
Funny watching these old episodes and the things you notice which I can't remember noticing at the time.
Two women, Debbie and Naima.
Both came onto the show being quite feministic with ambitions. In Debbie's case she was quite vocally independent yet bad choices and bereavement chipped away at her and she left to marry who was to me, then and now, a bit of a misogynistic, old-fashioned policeman who looked like he could be quite controlling. At the time I couldn't see what she saw in him and 30-odd years later my opinion hasn't changed.
Ditto Naima, who was strong in her arranged marriage and stood her ground, was ambitious, hard-working and very resourceful yet one whiff of a mustachioed romeo like out of a Bollywood film and she went all giddy giving up everything she'd worked and fought so hard for to elope and play housewife with her prince! Granted he was minted and she'll have maids but still ...
Message in the mid-80's - feminist? Pah? She just needs a good man/good rogering. Women know your place!
lol!
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Post by roverman on Mar 1, 2019 11:45:33 GMT
Good points about Debs/Naima, funny how money helps focus the mind.
I’ve come to the conclusion they couldn’t write exits for toffee in the early days. Of the characters who have left so far only Andy’s exit was memorable. Everyone else quietly/quickly sidles off into the sunset. Just about every exit is wrapped up within a fortnight (4 episode block).
Interesting that we have the “black cab” cliche and here we are almost 3 years into the show and no one has left that way yet.
What I did like was the scene where Lou and Ethel talked about cards from former characters. That felt realistic. I doubt Christmas cards even got a look this year, too busy with the hyper drama.
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Post by CAEF on Mar 1, 2019 13:35:12 GMT
10 years later in the 1990s Lisa Shaw arrived as a woman of steel. She was feisty and no nonsense. After a year of suffering an abusive relationship with Little Man Syndrome Philth, she turned into a clingy, mousey doormat.
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Post by Uncle Quentin on Mar 22, 2019 15:57:28 GMT
Loving these classic episodes.
Mary's dad amuses me, he's never in a single scene without a fag going. If he's still alive the smoking ban must have hurt him like hell. He'd go scuba-diving with a fag on.
I watched all these first time around and I'm still baffled by what Den & Wicksy see in the loathsome Mags. Face like a bag of spanners, body like a tree feller, and all the personality of a trifle. What is it she has??
I've also noticed what little stumpy legs Michelle has. Quite weird. Her torso must be longer than Dot Cotton's original goofy teeth.
Absolutely love Pat, it riles me that everybody is so horrible to her. Especially Pete, the woman-beating coward. What a vile bully he is, usually to Ian. Love Ethel & Lou as well.
One final thing, when these originally aired, EE was seen as so much more modern than old fashioned Corrie & Emmy, and it was to be fair. Yet watching all three back now, it's undisputedly EE that has aged the worst. That seems odd to me.
I'd still be watching EE if it were as good as it were then.
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Post by CAEF on Mar 27, 2019 12:16:58 GMT
Up to April 1988 already.
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Post by CAEF on Apr 28, 2019 13:55:38 GMT
Well into 1988, and the mass exodus of originals. Angie, Lou, Lofty, Mary. 1989 saw the exit of King Den Watts, and then Ali and Sue plus Colin and Barry.
By the end of 1989, the remaining originals had yet to become established as icons such as Kathy, Ian, Arthur and Pauline. Den, Angie, Lofty, Mary, Lou and the Osman's epitomised 1980s EE.
Pete Beale was a bit iconic I think. I never saw Michelle as iconic.
Peter Dean is 80 on 2nd May 2019.
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Post by roverman on Apr 28, 2019 14:10:54 GMT
I’m definitely feeling a change in style and direction. We are starting to see Ian’s role being built up with him working at the cafe (which he will eventually buy into) and all of a sudden Cindy is interested in him!
On some levels it’s a shame Anita didn’t come back for these episodes where Den is on the run/banged up as I would have love Ange to throw her “two pennyworth” into the mix, plus Sharon could do with some support.
As an aside was Clare and Janine a retcon? I’ve not heard any mention of them yet. It’s almost like Frank only has 2 kids and not four!
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Post by CAEF on Apr 28, 2019 14:21:29 GMT
Apparently it was November 1987 when Leslie Grantham decided to leave. I bet millions of EE viewers must have been very sad when that news was announced. And Anita Dobson decided to leave at the same time as Leslie. If I was Leslie I would have stayed. Anita and Leslie had bit parts and one off dramas after EE. Leslie did Fort Boyard as a sub presenter. EastEnders was their most prominent roles.
Until 1988, Ian was more of a background character but then he became more prominent.
Apparently Anna Wing left because she did not like the direction the show was gong in. What she meant by that I am not sure.
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Post by roverman on Apr 28, 2019 14:30:18 GMT
I’d read somewhere she’d had a crisis of confidence in her abilities and they gave her a break (in the run up to her death Lou was either in bed or at Clacton, you barely saw her) and she returned with a decision to leave. Her obituary suggests she later regretted it. Given how long Anna Wing lived for we could have seen Lou onscreen well into the 1990s, especially as Wing’s health seemed to be very good for a long time.
I’m convinced Mo Butcher was a replacement Lou. Poor Pat, one battle axe mother in law dies, another enters stage right !
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Post by CAEF on Apr 28, 2019 14:40:44 GMT
I also think Mo was a copy of Lou. They never met as Mo arrived 2 months after Lou died. Imagine if they did meet.
Anna Wing lived for 25 years after leaving EE, so I often think of the "What could have been". I could imagine Lou meeting Phil and Grant. At least Mo Butcher did as Phil found a confused Mo in his garage and comforted her. Back then Phil was a proper human.
Angie could have returned for guest roles. 1989, 1991 and 1992 would have been good. I would have paid Anita a good sum of money to do the guest stints in the 1990s. Everyone has a price.
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Post by Holey on Apr 28, 2019 14:58:05 GMT
I also think Mo was a copy of Lou. They never met as Mo arrived 2 months after Lou died. Imagine if they did meet. Anna Wing lived for 25 years after leaving EE, so I often think of the "What could have been". I could imagine Lou meeting Phil and Grant. At least Mo Butcher did as Phil found a confused Mo in his garage and comforted her. Back then Phil was a proper human. Angie could have returned for guest roles. 1989, 1991 and 1992 would have been good. I would have paid Anita a good sum of money to do the guest stints in the 1990s. Everyone has a price. I don't think she would have sadly, The Beeb did try, but Money was not an issue for Anita. She wanted to try other roles.
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Post by roverman on Apr 28, 2019 15:32:22 GMT
A lot of people think Anita left to be Mrs Brian May and just sit at home washing his hair for him!
But in 1989 she switched sides and went into an ITV sitcom called Split Ends, that lasted just 6 episodes, a show that was allegedly written for her.
Then she did some theatre work and numerous one off appearances in popular shows like The Bill, Casaulty, Red Dwarf etc
I suspect she didn’t want to be tied down to one show long term and enjoys playing one off characters although a lot of them to me felt like variations of Angie Watts!
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Post by CAEF on Apr 28, 2019 15:36:19 GMT
I suppose Leslie Grantham felt the same, he did not want to be tied down to a long term role of Den Watts. 15 years later he agreed to a return and I read that he was signed up to at least 2006. But his dressing room antics seemed to put paid to that and he was killed off in early 2005.
I think if it had not been for Den's exit we may not have had the Mitchell Brothers. They needed to bring in new hardmen so chose the Mitchells. Steve McFadden says he only signed up for 6 months initially.
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