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Post by maurice45 on Apr 19, 2015 21:07:50 GMT
I might have to watch some of those eps back at some point. I have the box set but I tend to skip S7, so I don't remember how annoying General Buffy was.
I agree re. the sickly sweet stuff though. That was more suited for Buffy and Angel, it was out of character for Spike. He generally admits his feelings, but doesn't turn soppy or lovesick. I wanted him to remain the same as he was when with Dru, only less prone to killing.
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Post by Lady W on Apr 19, 2015 21:18:42 GMT
I know that pre-vamp Spike, well William, was very gentle and wore his heart on sleeve and everything so Soulful Spike was in-keeping with that, but everyone loved Spike because he was such a badass and although he kept a little of his edge with other characters (ie. almost killing Principal Wood) he was a such a soppy mess whenever he was with Buffy and it was just at times. I think Spike was at his best in S5 and early on in S6, pre-Spuffy. "I know you'll never love me. I know that I'm a monster but you treat me like a man" - that's the Buffy/Spike relationship I liked the most.
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Post by CollieWobbles on Apr 19, 2015 21:24:16 GMT
I hated the Potentials with a passion! Despised the lot of them and if they kicked me out of my own house I'd have willingly fed them to the Turok Han . I really didn't like season 7, it was awful, all those new ( highly irritating and extremly unlikeable newbies) when the final ever season should have centered on the main 4 whole been there since the start. Add to that Willow moving on from the brilliant Oz and Tara to that Kennedy bint, Spike loosing his edge, retconning the whole concept just to fit those awful potentials in, and all Buffy's friends, who've known her in forever, agreeing to turf her out of her house that she was letting them stay in for free, and it sums up to a fairly poor, weak, and dissapointing final season. It was a bit like finding out the tooth fairy isn't real, the idea that Buffy wasn't 'one girl in all the world' with the power, I hated that they did that, and prefer to pretend it never happened . My favourite season is season 5, much stronger than s7, with a better big bad and finish. I often think if they'd found a way to swap season 6 and 5 around, I would have much preferred it to end completly on The Gift. My season preferences would be : season 5 season 6 (only because of OMWF and Spuffy goodness!) season 2 season 1 season 3 season 4 season 7 It was very depressing, wasn't it? I was pretty disappointed at all Buffy's friends for having a go at her, but when Kennedy got involved, I just thought, "oh shut up will you, who are you anyway?" At least Faith had the grace to stay out of the argument, Dawn was acting like a complete brat. "You can't stay here!". Eurgh! I loved the scene where Buffy just obliterated the Turok Han single-handedly, but was let down when later pretty much every character was shown to be able to kill them. Buffy had a hard time against just one, no way could those brats (Potentials) take on an entire army! It was very depressing, more so than s6 which actually had them depressed! That scene at the end of Get It Done, with all those thousands of Übervamps didn't really mount to nothing because as you say, despite the first one being mega hard to kill, the others seemed to just dissapear! To be honest, they seemed to be getting a bit stuck for ideas by this point, and after seeing what it turned into, I'm really really glad they decided to end it after season 7. I'd rather have 6 utterly amazing seasons (and one unamazing one) than for them to mik it to death so that by the end you couldn't wait for it to finish as you'd long lost interest. It ended at the right time but with the wrong season imo. Indeed, and that became even clearer after Spiked "Buffy saved all your lives and you still kicked her out in the middle of an apocalypse" speech. Seriously, why did Buffy get such a raw deal in S7? Tbh, I didn't like the direction she went in in S7. I hated the whole General Buffy leading her army of Potentials thing because A) The Potentials were annoying as hell and stole focus from the main Scoobies and B) General Buffy was a bit too much of a bitch. Remember when she said back in S5 that she was worried about Slayerness turning her into stone and being unable to love? Well, she was kind of heading down that path in S7 and I really didn't like it. The only person she seemed to have any proper time for was Spike and, quite honestly, I thought her and Soulful Spike were a bit too sickly sweet to each other and I think a bit too much time was devoted to them (as well as the Potentials) at the expense of the others. Buffy getting kicked out of her own house was preposterous but her attitude wasn't great during that showdown either; ultimately she was right but it was a bit much asking everyone to go back to the vineyard again so soon after them being all beaten down by Caleb on nothing but a hunch. If she'd have dropped the General Buffy dictator routine then maybe the Potentials wouldn't have turned against her so strongly. I just think S7 Buffy had a strange vibe about her, it didn't feel like she was the Buffy of the other seasons. Even in S6 when she was going through her depression, there was still remnants of the old Buffy in there. I hated the Potentials with a passion! Despised the lot of them and if they kicked me out of my own house I'd have willingly fed them to the Turok Han . I really didn't like season 7, it was awful, all those new ( highly irritating and extremly unlikeable newbies) when the final ever season should have centered on the main 4 whole been there since the start. Add to that Willow moving on from the brilliant Oz and Tara to that Kennedy bint, Spike loosing his edge, retconning the whole concept just to fit those awful potentials in, and all Buffy's friends, who've known her in forever, agreeing to turf her out of her house that she was letting them stay in for free, and it sums up to a fairly poor, weak, and dissapointing final season. It was a bit like finding out the tooth fairy isn't real, the idea that Buffy wasn't 'one girl in all the world' with the power, I hated that they did that, and prefer to pretend it never happened . My favourite season is season 5, much stronger than s7, with a better big bad and finish. I often think if they'd found a way to swap season 6 and 5 around, I would have much preferred it to end completly on The Gift. My season preferences would be : season 5 season 6 (only because of OMWF and Spuffy goodness!) season 2 season 1 season 3 season 4 season 7 Agree with your review of S7, Collie! I also believe that The Gift would've been a better finale than Chosen.
As for Season preference, I can't really rank my favourites because I can't choose between them. Best I can do is say that 2,3,5 and 6 are my best seasons, with 1,4, and 7 being the weakest.
That seems to be the majority ranking from what I've seen. I think I'm in a minority about season one, most don't rate it much but it's deffo one of my favourites!
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Post by maurice45 on Apr 19, 2015 21:31:43 GMT
Season 1 was amazing. The Master was one of my favourite Big Bads, after Spike, The Mayor and Angelus. I thought there were perhaps too many cut-away episodes and not enough Master awesomeness though, but that's just me..
Adding to that, Luke was a brilliant character too. I liked his Biblical quotations as he fought Buffy in the crypt. Darla was awesome, but her death scene was poor.
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Post by Lady W on Apr 19, 2015 21:35:50 GMT
That seems to be the majority ranking from what I've seen. I think I'm in a minority about season one, most don't rate it much but it's deffo one of my favourites! S1 is tricky for me because I kind of class it differently than the rest of Buffy because the show was literally just finding its feet. I feel 'proper' Buffy starts from S2; When She Was Bad just has a different feel to it, if that makes sense? It feels like a darker and more serious show. That being said, I wouldn't put S1 down as terrible because it's watchable enough!
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Post by CollieWobbles on Apr 19, 2015 21:38:37 GMT
I know that pre-vamp Spike, well William, was very gentle and wore his heart on sleeve and everything so Soulful Spike was in-keeping with that, but everyone loved Spike because he was such a badass and although he kept a little of his edge with other characters (ie. almost killing Principal Wood) he was a such a soppy mess whenever he was with Buffy and it was just at times. I think Spike was at his best in S5 and early on in S6, pre-Spuffy. "I know you'll never love me. I know that I'm a monster but you treat me like a man" - that's the Buffy/Spike relationship I liked the most. Badass Spike was definitely better than soppy season 7 Spike, and their love/hate relationship of season 5 was brilliant but the Spuffy shipper in me wanted them together so bad . Buffy must have been bloody nuts to not want him anywhere near her, just look at the guy!
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Post by Lady W on Apr 19, 2015 21:42:57 GMT
Badass Spike was definitely better than soppy season 7 Spike, and their love/hate relationship of season 5 was brilliant but the Spuffy shipper in me wanted them together so bad . Buffy must have been bloody nuts to not want him anywhere near her, just look at the guy! You'd have shown her how it's done...well, how he's done
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Post by CollieWobbles on Apr 19, 2015 21:49:18 GMT
This is my current Buffy collection: Comsisting of of trading cards, binders, a 2002 and 2003 yearbook, DVD's, the musical CD, a coffin trading card set, the Watcher's Guide books, a complete collection of the UK Buffy magazines and a Buffy 'Women of Sunnydale' cardboard box!
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Post by Lady W on Apr 19, 2015 21:55:28 GMT
Good grief, Collie! That's some collection!! I'm very jealous right now
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Post by CollieWobbles on Apr 19, 2015 22:20:07 GMT
Badass Spike was definitely better than soppy season 7 Spike, and their love/hate relationship of season 5 was brilliant but the Spuffy shipper in me wanted them together so bad . Buffy must have been bloody nuts to not want him anywhere near her, just look at the guy! You'd have shown her how it's done...well, how he's done Damn right! Good grief, Collie! That's some collection!! I'm very jealous right now It cost a fair bit, especially the binders, the season 5 one is the hardest by far to get hold of and I ended up paying £50 for it!! It's not a cheap subject to collect! The best two bargains I've had are the magazine collection, I got them off eBay for £10 and their immaculate, with the freebies and posters all still intact, and the season one binder which said it came with 'various cards' one of which turned out be an autograph card signed by Joss Whedon! I think whoever sold the binder didn't realise what it was or plain forgot it was there!
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Post by kitkat1971 on Apr 20, 2015 11:51:51 GMT
Poor Xander he could be a spare part at times, but I liked the fact there was a member of the Scooby gang who was "normal". Willow probably has to be my fave character though, she was kooky and fun. I also have a soft spot for Giles. Willow and Tara were a brilliant couple and I'll never forgive Whedon for killing Tara off! Everybody did get on my nerves during the "Us vs Buffy" argument resulting in Buffy leaving the house. I understood their fears but they all, including Giles who I normally liked, came across really badly. Dawn grew on me later on, she was really annoying at the beginning. Ditto for...Kennedy, was it? The Potential Slayer who was anti-Buffy for no reason. Everybody ganging up on Buffy and then kicking her out of her own house remains a real 'grrrrk for me. Yes, she could be domineering and annoying but that was her mother's house, a house she had to go into dead end jobs to afford to run after Joyce's death. Why didn't Willow go get her own house or take the Potentials back to HER parents if she was so affronted at her behaviour. Ditto Xander. Kennedy was a mess. Confrontational, know it all and power. Exactly why was she some kind of deputy, a cut above all the other Potentials? Was it just because she was shagging Willow? Speaking of which, i once said in a review of 'The Killer In Me' that Kennedy never felt like anything but Whedon's answer to accusations of homophobia for killing off Tara. But that kind of misses the point of why Tara had to die - it was to push willow to the point of turning evil. It had to be the person she loved the most, if Seth Green hadn't left it would have been Oz. Yes it was upsetting to lose Tara but it didn't happen because she was gay. However, by having Willow move on so quickly into another a relationship, it cheapened the memory of their love.
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Post by kitkat1971 on Apr 20, 2015 11:58:01 GMT
The humus offensive, he'll never see it coming The Mayor was a wonderful Big Bad! He was just so much fun to watch because he was so cheery and upbeat despite being evil. He's probably up as my favourite Big Bad. Trick was ok but I think having him dusted with Faith replacing him was a stroke of genius. The Mayor and Faith's evil father/daughter relationship was very compelling and strangely beautiful. Adam, on the other hand, was rubbish. Too one-dimensional and just plain dull. But S4 wasn't a strong season anyway. Much as I love spike, Dru and angel the Mayor was my favourite Big Bad as well. But maybe it's because angel, Spike and Dru hung around so long that there weren't 'just' Big Bads. The Mayor was just fantastic and I loved him with Faith too. It's odd that despite Spike being my favourite character and making any episode worth watching, i think Season 3 is the strongest overall and he'd only in one episode.
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Post by kitkat1971 on Apr 20, 2015 13:03:06 GMT
Yeah I liked Tara and Willow together, I think Whedon himself said somewhere that it was a mistake killing her off. I think it is more that he wished he hadn't had to kill her off but as mentioned in my last post it was a necessary act to get willow to that place in Season 6 but still have her actions be 'forgiveable' due to what she'd lost. There were lans to bring her back at the end, the amulet thingy was going to grant wishes or something and that would have been Buffy's wish but it fell through - i can't remember why. Amber Benson may have been unavailable, she was for 'conversations with Dead People' as originally she was going to appear to Willow rather than Cassie.
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Post by kitkat1971 on Apr 20, 2015 13:25:11 GMT
That seems to be the majority ranking from what I've seen. I think I'm in a minority about season one, most don't rate it much but it's deffo one of my favourites! S1 is tricky for me because I kind of class it differently than the rest of Buffy because the show was literally just finding its feet. I feel 'proper' Buffy starts from S2; When She Was Bad just has a different feel to it, if that makes sense? It feels like a darker and more serious show. That being said, I wouldn't put S1 down as terrible because it's watchable enough! I agree about Season 1. It is very, very good, probably one of the best debut seasons of any show but of course it was finding it's feet, experimenting with different forms and was 'younger' in tone because the characters were younger and they were testing boundaries which continued in Season 2. An acquaintance of mine, Keith Topping wrote the Buffy companion books and I remember him saying that the introduction of Spike and Dru in School Hard is when a good show became a great show. It is almost like a new start. I would thn say that 'surprise/Innocence' really steps it up a gear, gets darker and becomes the show 'proper'. I think all the seasons are good. Again in a review I did for Season 7 (i used to write for TV Zone) I commented that for Buffy, season 7 was inferior but it was still better than nearly anything on TV at the time. Order, I think I'd have to go. 3, 5, 2, 6, 4, 7, 1.
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Post by CollieWobbles on Apr 20, 2015 15:58:37 GMT
The humus offensive, he'll never see it coming The Mayor was a wonderful Big Bad! He was just so much fun to watch because he was so cheery and upbeat despite being evil. He's probably up as my favourite Big Bad. Trick was ok but I think having him dusted with Faith replacing him was a stroke of genius. The Mayor and Faith's evil father/daughter relationship was very compelling and strangely beautiful. Adam, on the other hand, was rubbish. Too one-dimensional and just plain dull. But S4 wasn't a strong season anyway. Much as I love spike, Dru and angel the Mayor was my favourite Big Bad as well. But maybe it's because angel, Spike and Dru hung around so long that there weren't 'just' Big Bads. The Mayor was just fantastic and I loved him with Faith too. It's odd that despite Spike being my favourite character and making any episode worth watching, i think Season 3 is the strongest overall and he'd only in one episode. I don't really count Spike as a big bad (though Buffybot would probably disagree with me on that!), so my favourite big bad has to be Glory. She was an actual God for goodness sake, she really didn't seem defeatable , even by Buffy. She had some great :Dlines too 'did anybody else know the slayer was a robot?' gets me every time .
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