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Post by CollieWobbles on May 30, 2015 22:13:29 GMT
I can't quite remember how I got into Buffy, a friend of mine raved about it, saying I had to watch it (as did the teacher who overheard our conversation!), and intrigued I did. I was hooked as soon as the credits rolled at the end of the episide, which incidentally, was the first one as I can't start a series half way through, I have to go in order.
As an aside, which ones do you think work as stand alone episodes? Provided you've seen the whole show at least once obviously, IMO none of them are so stand alone you could put one on randomly like a film, if you hadn't seen it before you wouldn't have a clue on the ifs or why's. It's a bit like a soap in that respect smiley-biglaugh
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Post by Lady W on May 30, 2015 22:53:43 GMT
As an aside, which ones do you think work as stand alone episodes? Provided you've seen the whole show at least once obviously, IMO none of them are so stand alone you could put one on randomly like a film, if you hadn't seen it before you wouldn't have a clue on the ifs or why's. It's a bit like a soap in that respect smiley-biglaugh School Hard Ted The Zeppo Earshot Hush They're the ones that first spring to my mind. In fact I've actually used School Hard and Ted as 'tester' episodes to a couple of my friends and I've succeeded in convincing them to watch the show from the start!
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Post by CollieWobbles on May 31, 2015 15:58:31 GMT
As an aside, which ones do you think work as stand alone episodes? Provided you've seen the whole show at least once obviously, IMO none of them are so stand alone you could put one on randomly like a film, if you hadn't seen it before you wouldn't have a clue on the ifs or why's. It's a bit like a soap in that respect smiley-biglaugh School Hard Ted The Zeppo Earshot Hush They're the ones that first spring to my mind. In fact I've actually used School Hard and Ted as 'tester' episodes to a couple of my friends and I've succeeded in convincing them to watch the show from the start! I'd choose any of those except The Zeppo, really really not keen on that one. Hush is an absolute masterpiece, The Gentlemen were terrifying, easily the scariest monsters in the whole Buffyverse, they way they glided silently around Sunnydale was way creepier than something roaring, growling or making a lot of noise. Earshot is one of my favourites, Giles walking into the tree at the end gets me every time smiley-biglaugh
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Post by Lady W on Jun 3, 2015 20:08:14 GMT
I'd choose any of those except The Zeppo, really really not keen on that one. Hush is an absolute masterpiece, The Gentlemen were terrifying, easily the scariest monsters in the whole Buffyverse, they way they glided silently around Sunnydale was way creepier than something roaring, growling or making a lot of noise. Earshot is one of my favourites, Giles walking into the tree at the end gets me every time smiley-biglaugh Aw, I think The Zeppo is quite a fun episode. I love the way Xander interrupts that big, melodramatic scene with Buffy and Angel s0238 It made a great example of an 'outsider' perspective of the whole show. Totally with you on The Gentlemen though! smiley-yikes Everything about them was just horrifying. I know I said it a while back on DS but they, along with the Gnarl, were the creepiest demon foes on Buffy, hands down.
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Post by CollieWobbles on Jun 4, 2015 23:52:55 GMT
I'd choose any of those except The Zeppo, really really not keen on that one. Hush is an absolute masterpiece, The Gentlemen were terrifying, easily the scariest monsters in the whole Buffyverse, they way they glided silently around Sunnydale was way creepier than something roaring, growling or making a lot of noise. Earshot is one of my favourites, Giles walking into the tree at the end gets me every time smiley-biglaugh Aw, I think The Zeppo is quite a fun episode. I love the way Xander interrupts that big, melodramatic scene with Buffy and Angel s0238 It made a great example of an 'outsider' perspective of the whole show. Totally with you on The Gentlemen though! smiley-yikes Everything about them was just horrifying. I know I said it a while back on DS but they, along with the Gnarl, were the creepiest demon foes on Buffy, hands down. They were, and I'd also add the Übervamps to that list, at least based on appearance. Camden Toy definitely had a real flair for looking horrifying s0238 . Gnarl was just stomach churning, the clacking of its nails and the way it was tearing bits of flesh off Willow, that whole scene makes me feel queasy. I also thought De Kindestood was terrifying too, especially when it's eyes came out smiley-yikes . what's your least favourite or worst episode? I haven't got a worst one as I don't believe any of them were bad, but I really didn't like Beer Bad. It was just not very good and seemed to be mostly half an episode of rather annoying monkey noises
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Post by kitkat1971 on Jun 5, 2015 13:53:48 GMT
As an aside, which ones do you think work as stand alone episodes? Provided you've seen the whole show at least once obviously, IMO none of them are so stand alone you could put one on randomly like a film, if you hadn't seen it before you wouldn't have a clue on the ifs or why's. It's a bit like a soap in that respect smiley-biglaugh School Hard Ted The Zeppo Earshot Hush They're the ones that first spring to my mind. In fact I've actually used School Hard and Ted as 'tester' episodes to a couple of my friends and I've succeeded in convincing them to watch the show from the start! Yes, I tended to start with School Hard or Haloween when introducing it to somebody.
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Post by Lady W on Jun 5, 2015 18:57:34 GMT
They were, and I'd also add the Übervamps to that list, at least based on appearance. Camden Toy definitely had a real flair for looking horrifying s0238 . Gnarl was just stomach churning, the clacking of its nails and the way it was tearing bits of flesh off Willow, that whole scene makes me feel queasy. I also thought De Kindestood was terrifying too, especially when it's eyes came out smiley-yikes . what's your least favourite or worst episode? I haven't got a worst one as I don't believe any of them were bad, but I really didn't like Beer Bad. It was just not very good and seemed to be mostly half an episode of rather annoying monkey noises
Yeah, Beer Bad is a pretty weak episode, one of my least favourites of S4. The Killer In Me is the worst one for me overall, hands down. Trying to force fan investment in the Willow/Kennedy relationship smiley-angry And then randomly shoe-horning Amy and her contrived jealousy of Willow into that plotline smiley-huh And the Giles-is-The-First 'joke' was too ridiculous; as if none of the core Scoobies hadn't hugged him at least once! free-rolleye-smileys-323 Where The Wild Things Are is a close second but it gets points for Giles' singing.
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Post by CollieWobbles on Jun 5, 2015 23:02:54 GMT
They were, and I'd also add the Übervamps to that list, at least based on appearance. Camden Toy definitely had a real flair for looking horrifying s0238 . Gnarl was just stomach churning, the clacking of its nails and the way it was tearing bits of flesh off Willow, that whole scene makes me feel queasy. I also thought De Kindestood was terrifying too, especially when it's eyes came out smiley-yikes . what's your least favourite or worst episode? I haven't got a worst one as I don't believe any of them were bad, but I really didn't like Beer Bad. It was just not very good and seemed to be mostly half an episode of rather annoying monkey noises
Yeah, Beer Bad is a pretty weak episode, one of my least favourites of S4. The Killer In Me is the worst one for me overall, hands down. Trying to force fan investment in the Willow/Kennedy relationship smiley-angry And then randomly shoe-horning Amy and her contrived jealousy of Willow into that plotline smiley-huh And the Giles-is-The-First 'joke' was too ridiculous; as if none of the core Scoobies hadn't hugged him at least once! free-rolleye-smileys-323 Where The Wild Things Are is a close second but it gets points for Giles' singing. Giles is the First joke is only funny for that line about thinking he's evil because he took a group of girls camping and didn't touch them s0238 . I despised Kennedy, out of all the awful potentials I despised her the most, and I seriously hated the fact they put her with Willow smiley-angry . It was way too soon after Tara, and she shouldn't have been killed off anyway, she was sacrificed purely to have the Willow turns evil plot at the end of season 6, and it wasn't worth it imo. I do like season 6 for Spuffy and the musical and a few episodes, but it went a bit off course, more like a soap than a supernatural show with the storylines, and never really recovered, starting off not great in early s6 and plummeting straight down by the end of season 7. I still think it should have somehow been worked so The Gift was the final episode and they didn't bring Buffy back from the dead either. Where The Wild Things are was definately one for the not great pile, it seemed blatantly made to make it seem Buffy/Riley were hotter than Buffy/ Angel. Which is crap because Buffy/Spike was hotter than both . Giles singing was good though and it gets points for the 'orgasm wall' smiley-biglaugh .
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Post by Lady W on Jun 5, 2015 23:58:33 GMT
I despised Kennedy, out of all the awful potentials I despised her the most, and I seriously hated the fact they put her with Willow smiley-angry . It was way too soon after Tara, and she shouldn't have been killed off anyway, she was sacrificed purely to have the Willow turns evil plot at the end of season 6, and it wasn't worth it imo. I do like season 6 for Spuffy and the musical and a few episodes, but it went a bit off course, more like a soap than a supernatural show with the storylines, and never really recovered, starting off not great in early s6 and plummeting straight down by the end of season 7. I still think it should have somehow been worked so The Gift was the final episode and they didn't bring Buffy back from the dead either. By the time Season 6 came around, Buffy was a very different show. I know a lot of people dislike it for how depressing it is and they hate the unsubtle magic/drugs metaphor with Willow but, as dark and dismal as it is, I still think it's a pretty solid season. However, I do agree that The Gift would've made an ideal ending to the whole series; Chosen just didn't generate the same kind of emotional investment I had in The Gift. But Season 7 kind of leaves me cold. The first half does a pretty decent job of creating the tension over The First but when that reaches its limitations (i.e. The First can't touch anything) then the show sort of changes direction and starts throwing in other stuff to compensate, like the Ubervamp and Caleb. The Potentials were horrible additions and, like you say, Kennedy was the one I hated most; so arrogant and obnoxious and so not right for Willow. The Tara-shaped hole in the show was still pretty raw so I don't know why they felt that Willow needed a new relationship, she should've been left single. Willow and Oz worked, Willow and Tara worked but Willow and Kennedy was blatantly a mismatch from the start; did their relationship add anything to the show? No! So they effectively crapped all over Tara's memory for nothing
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Post by CollieWobbles on Jun 8, 2015 0:26:54 GMT
I despised Kennedy, out of all the awful potentials I despised her the most, and I seriously hated the fact they put her with Willow smiley-angry . It was way too soon after Tara, and she shouldn't have been killed off anyway, she was sacrificed purely to have the Willow turns evil plot at the end of season 6, and it wasn't worth it imo. I do like season 6 for Spuffy and the musical and a few episodes, but it went a bit off course, more like a soap than a supernatural show with the storylines, and never really recovered, starting off not great in early s6 and plummeting straight down by the end of season 7. I still think it should have somehow been worked so The Gift was the final episode and they didn't bring Buffy back from the dead either. By the time Season 6 came around, Buffy was a very different show. I know a lot of people dislike it for how depressing it is and they hate the unsubtle magic/drugs metaphor with Willow but, as dark and dismal as it is, I still think it's a pretty solid season. However, I do agree that The Gift would've made an ideal ending to the whole series; Chosen just didn't generate the same kind of emotional investment I had in The Gift. But Season 7 kind of leaves me cold. The first half does a pretty decent job of creating the tension over The First but when that reaches its limitations (i.e. The First can't touch anything) then the show sort of changes direction and starts throwing in other stuff to compensate, like the Ubervamp and Caleb. The Potentials were horrible additions and, like you say, Kennedy was the one I hated most; so arrogant and obnoxious and so not right for Willow. The Tara-shaped hole in the show was still pretty raw so I don't know why they felt that Willow needed a new relationship, she should've been left single. Willow and Oz worked, Willow and Tara worked but Willow and Kennedy was blatantly a mismatch from the start; did their relationship add anything to the show? No! So they effectively crapped all over Tara's memory for nothing Season 7 just did not work. I'm really glad they ended it when they did, it was going downhill by mid way through s7, I cant imagine what another season would have done. It was obvious that they'd not only run out of ideas, they had seemed to abandon the show somehow to concentrate on Angel. The main characters were sidelined, new boring awful characters were introduced in a season that should have been mainly about the core four who'd been there from the beginning, not some mockney muppets nobody gave a toss about! A crap big bad that they quickly backed themselves into a corner with so they have to come up with something else. And above all the complete retconning of the entire base of the show! That was the worst of the lot smiley-angry . Season 6, although depressing, and had that stupid trio, was much better, though I do wish they'd let Xander and Anya get married. They were perfect together, and much better than Willow/Kennedy if they were determined to have at least one couple in the show.
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Post by Lady W on Jun 8, 2015 18:21:35 GMT
Season 7 just did not work. I'm really glad they ended it when they did, it was going downhill by mid way through s7, I cant imagine what another season would have done. It was obvious that they'd not only run out of ideas, they had seemed to abandon the show somehow to concentrate on Angel. The main characters were sidelined, new boring awful characters were introduced in a season that should have been mainly about the core four who'd been there from the beginning, not some mockney muppets nobody gave a toss about! A crap big bad that they quickly backed themselves into a corner with so they have to come up with something else. And above all the complete retconning of the entire base of the show! That was the worst of the lot smiley-angry . Season 6, although depressing, and had that stupid trio, was much better, though I do wish they'd let Xander and Anya get married. They were perfect together, and much better than Willow/Kennedy if they were determined to have at least one couple in the show. Totally agree with the BIB. Xander and Anya, like Willow and Tara, fit together brilliantly. What gets me more than the wedding not going ahead is the fact that Anya was killed off in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it way and there was no time for any genuine reaction/emotional fallout because the show literally had minutes to go before ending for good. The best we got was Xander talking to Andrew about it for, like, 30 seconds and that was it. I think that was a pretty crappy end to a thoroughly entertaining character that had been around since S3 and who was part of one of the major romantic pairings of the whole show!
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Post by ScrabblyWabbly on Jun 8, 2015 18:42:17 GMT
Season 7 just did not work. I'm really glad they ended it when they did, it was going downhill by mid way through s7, I cant imagine what another season would have done. It was obvious that they'd not only run out of ideas, they had seemed to abandon the show somehow to concentrate on Angel. The main characters were sidelined, new boring awful characters were introduced in a season that should have been mainly about the core four who'd been there from the beginning, not some mockney muppets nobody gave a toss about! A crap big bad that they quickly backed themselves into a corner with so they have to come up with something else. And above all the complete retconning of the entire base of the show! That was the worst of the lot smiley-angry . Season 6, although depressing, and had that stupid trio, was much better, though I do wish they'd let Xander and Anya get married. They were perfect together, and much better than Willow/Kennedy if they were determined to have at least one couple in the show. Totally agree with the BIB. Xander and Anya, like Willow and Tara, fit together brilliantly. What gets me more than the wedding not going ahead is the fact that Anya was killed off in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it way and there was no time for any genuine reaction/emotional fallout because the show literally had minutes to go before ending for good. The best we got was Xander talking to Andrew about it for, like, 30 seconds and that was it. I think that was a pretty crappy end to a thoroughly entertaining character that had been around since S3 and who was part of one of the major romantic pairings of the whole show! I agree, I think both Anya and Tara's deaths were unnecessary, Anyas in particular felt like they thought they had to throw in a death but didn't want it to be the main four or Spike in case they ever decided to do some more. Same me goes for Anya turning bad again, it was happening the same time as Willow and it just felt too much.
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Post by Lady W on Jun 8, 2015 20:53:29 GMT
I agree, I think both Anya and Tara's deaths were unnecessary, Anyas in particular felt like they thought they had to throw in a death but didn't want it to be the main four or Spike in case they ever decided to do some more. Same me goes for Anya turning bad again, it was happening the same time as Willow and it just felt too much. That's exactly how I took it too. I don't know why they didn't go for Andrew or Principal Wood because the time spent on Anya's demise was more fitting for lesser characters like them. I think Anya going back to vengeance after the Xander stuff was a logical move for the character but I'm glad that it turned out that she couldn't enjoy dishing out punishments anymore and wanted to take it all back, though I was sad to see Hallie sacrificed for that.
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Post by CollieWobbles on Jun 11, 2015 9:34:30 GMT
Season 7 just did not work. I'm really glad they ended it when they did, it was going downhill by mid way through s7, I cant imagine what another season would have done. It was obvious that they'd not only run out of ideas, they had seemed to abandon the show somehow to concentrate on Angel. The main characters were sidelined, new boring awful characters were introduced in a season that should have been mainly about the core four who'd been there from the beginning, not some mockney muppets nobody gave a toss about! A crap big bad that they quickly backed themselves into a corner with so they have to come up with something else. And above all the complete retconning of the entire base of the show! That was the worst of the lot smiley-angry . Season 6, although depressing, and had that stupid trio, was much better, though I do wish they'd let Xander and Anya get married. They were perfect together, and much better than Willow/Kennedy if they were determined to have at least one couple in the show. Totally agree with the BIB. Xander and Anya, like Willow and Tara, fit together brilliantly. What gets me more than the wedding not going ahead is the fact that Anya was killed off in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it way and there was no time for any genuine reaction/emotional fallout because the show literally had minutes to go before ending for good. The best we got was Xander talking to Andrew about it for, like, 30 seconds and that was it. I think that was a pretty crappy end to a thoroughly entertaining character that had been around since S3 and who was part of one of the major romantic pairings of the whole show! Yep I agree with that, Anya got a crap ending, for what was a fairly main character by that point. It really felt in season 7 that they forgot about or ignored the characters that had been there since practically the start and decided to concentrate on a bu ch of new characters who were not a patch on the main ones and only bought in to bugger up the whole base of the show smiley-angry . I wonder how the main actors felt about being sidelined for a bunch of non characters in the very last season, when they'd given so much for the show since the start? I also think they were more interested in their new pet project Angel by that point (I'm sure I've read that JW didn't do as much in the final season and it shows, as I really doubt he'd have allowed his creation and the characters he'd spent so long building up be stamped on like that). It felt as though they were just writing and coming up with anything to finish it in such a hurry they were getting stuck with not thinking it through properly, so writing something else in to get out of that, then realised they only had a few episodes left to get it all wrapped up, ending in the all over the place, retconned, sloppy, badly covered cracks nonsensical season we got. Such a shame the final season didn't get the same care, attention and thought the other six got, the show could have gone out on a real high, though I still think The Gift would be near impossible to top as the ultimate ending. Totally agree with the BIB. Xander and Anya, like Willow and Tara, fit together brilliantly. What gets me more than the wedding not going ahead is the fact that Anya was killed off in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it way and there was no time for any genuine reaction/emotional fallout because the show literally had minutes to go before ending for good. The best we got was Xander talking to Andrew about it for, like, 30 seconds and that was it. I think that was a pretty crappy end to a thoroughly entertaining character that had been around since S3 and who was part of one of the major romantic pairings of the whole show! I agree, I think both Anya and Tara's deaths were unnecessary, Anyas in particular felt like they thought they had to throw in a death but didn't want it to be the main four or Spike in case they ever decided to do some more. Same me goes for Anya turning bad again, it was happening the same time as Willow and it just felt too much. If they wanted to kill someone off who was not really central to the show, nor a main four or Spike, but still have impact, they should have killed Dawn off. Buffy knowing she'd died for Dawn to save the world, only for it to come full circle and end up happening anyway would have been good. The idea that no matter what Buffy did, her sister was after all fated to be sacrificed in battle could have been interesting. Much more so than Anya's pointless death.
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Post by Lady W on Jun 11, 2015 20:25:16 GMT
Yep I agree with that, Anya got a crap ending, for what was a fairly main character by that point. It really felt in season 7 that they forgot about or ignored the characters that had been there since practically the start and decided to concentrate on a bunch of new characters who were not a patch on the main ones and only bought in to bugger up the whole base of the show smiley-angry . I wonder how the main actors felt about being sidelined for a bunch of non characters in the very last season, when they'd given so much for the show since the start? I also think they were more interested in their new pet project Angel by that point (I'm sure I've read that JW didn't do as much in the final season and it shows, as I really doubt he'd have allowed his creation and the characters he'd spent so long building up be stamped on like that). It felt as though they were just writing and coming up with anything to finish it in such a hurry they were getting stuck with not thinking it through properly, so writing something else in to get out of that, then realised they only had a few episodes left to get it all wrapped up, ending in the all over the place, retconned, sloppy, badly covered cracks nonsensical season we got. Such a shame the final season didn't get the same care, attention and thought the other six got, the show could have gone out on a real high, though I still think The Gift would be near impossible to top as the ultimate ending. If JW was prioritising Angel, then the crappy quality of S7 makes a lot of sense now. It just saddens me how rushed it all was, well...the second half anyway; the first half wasn't too bad, but they knew back in S3 that The First could only go so far as a legitimate threat so I don't know why they didn't at least bring Caleb in earlier. I'd have rather him been introduced than the Ubervamp because two episodes were spent on that thing, making it out to be nearly impossible to defeat but come the finale, they were being dusted as easily as regular vampires! I like that idea and not just because I generally hate Dawn but because it would fit in with Buffy's hardened atittude in Lies My Parents Told Me; when she said to Giles that if the events of The Gift were happening now then she would sacrifice Dawn this time. That being said, Buffy still tried to run Dawn out of town away from the danger so she hadn't completely resigned herself to the possibility of losing Dawn.
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